“Claim all the positive language of ‘love’ and ‘equality’ as your own and then, as a result, label any opposition as bigoted. In effect, shut down the discussion – that does not amount to a very satisfactory victory in anyone’s book.”
That is what happens when you have right on your side and win, the statement comes from the same stable as “How can you expect me to take you seriously if you dismiss all of them as abusive?”.
Some positions *ARE* just black and white, with all the good on one side and all the bad on the other. They have to be for me to pick a side and fight it. The world is full of battles I couldn’t care less about and never mention, or battles I can see both, or all, sides of, or even battles where both sides are rotten to the core. I leave them alone and do not have anything to say.
There *IS* no love or equality in your chosen position of claiming same sex love is somehow less or different to opposite sex love. No hiding from that or getting away from it. You cannot argue against same sex marriage on the grounds of love and equality. It’s like arguing for cream buns over fish and chips because they are more savoury…they just aren’t.
I will agree with you that it is impossible to feel free to have or even support a same sex relationship if you are fundamentalist Christian or Muslim, not something else open to argument. So that homosexuals of both genders are forced towards thinking for themselves rather than blindly following old books set down by human hands that effectively negate their existance. I regard this as one of the benefits of being gay being made to re-examine and reconsider personal faith.
At the end of thinking for themselves they may find sincere faith in the Jesus of the Christians or Allah of Islam – faith is an emotion, like love it belts you over the head and abducts you largely without your permission, and if they do then, through thinking and praying for themselves they must arrive at an individual decision about whether their sexual orientation (something else that belts you over the head and abducts you without permission unless you are bisexual) trumps the words of old books set down by human hands.
Equality does not exist in the terms of any individual perspective or faith. Equality is a fixed point that consists in giving each person the same rights independent of other factors (like the gender of the person they wish to marry) and other people’s beliefs, or even their own.
I agree that Christian fundamentalist marriage is about one man and one woman, just as Islamic fundamentalist marriage is about one man and up to three women.
But are not all Christian or Islamic fundamentalists we should not all be forced to live under the foot of Christian or Islamic fundamentalism any more than we should be forced into a marriage against our will.
You cannot argue for the governance of a whole diverse society from a base of fundamentalism. You can only evangelise.
Fine (I suppose) as long as you make it clear that is what you are doing and only evangelise consenting adults.
Covert evangelising through endless arguing for the sake of arguing is just ignorant…no way round that…even in Biblical terms.
If you wish to preach the Gospel then declare yourself a preacher with pride…and accept the inevitable rejections with fortitude.
I could respect you for that, from a safe distance. :o)
Do not try to disguise evangelism as reasoned argument. You fool no-one and get twice rejected, once for the unwanted message and once for the dishonesty of delivery.